Thursday, 6 August 2009

The open letter to Chancellor Angela Merkel

Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow Exxon lobby libertarianism
One of the tactics the climate denialists like to use is sending open letters to the government, signed by a bunch of (usually self-declared) 'experts'.

The aim of such open letters of course is to create the illusion that scientists don't agree on the subject of climate change and that because there's no consensus, it isn't necessary to act yet.

Actually the logic behind that imho is flawed itself, but it does reach its goal : it does manage to cause confusion and manages to mislead many people.

In the English speaking part of the world, there's plenty of examples of such letters written by the Exxon-lobby (e.g. open letter to the Canadian prime-minister Harper). And in Holland there was the S. Fred Singer & the Dutch denialists letter.

Now there's some fuzz in Germany & Holland about a new open letter to German prime-minister Angela Merkel titled "Temperaturmessungen ab 1701 widerlegen anthropogen verursachte Temperaturschwankungen".
As will be shown, there's a disbubing lot of connections between this letter and some well known lobbygroups.

The English version of the letter (pdf) can be found here. It was collected by an astroturf group called Europäisches Institut für Klima und Energie (EIKE) which i've never heard of before. But then again, i'm Belgian, not German.

The EIKE group
The well known astroturf group International Climate Science Coalition mentions EIKE on its website as the German group to contact about the Manhattan declaration.

And this Manhattan declaration is a lobby-tool written at the end of the Heartland's Institute 2008 International Conference on Climate Change were all the skeptics and no real scientists gathered.

One of the leading people of EIKE is Michael Limburg, who published the book "climate hysteria, what is it all about".

His book was published by the Committee for a Constructive Tomorrow. And this CFACT brings us on common grounds, as in the advisory board we can find good reliable people like Sallie Baliunas and Hans Labohm etc. It's a small world sometimes, isn't it ?
UPDATE : seems the connections between lobbygroup CFACT & EIKE are worse than i thought and the president of EIKE is no one else but the director of CFACT-Europe !
Anyway, the leter itself doesn't adress much science, and the supposed arguments aren't very impressive :
  • (...) the temperature fluctuations have been within normal ranges and are due to natural cycles. Indeed the atmosphere has not warmed since 1998 – more than 10 years, and the global temperature has even dropped significantly since 2003.Not one of the many extremely expensive climate models predicted this. According to the IPCC, it was supposed to have gotten steadily warmer, but just the opposite has occurred.

  • More importantly, there’s a growing body of evidence showing anthropogenic CO2 plays no measurable role. Indeed CO2’s capability to absorb radiation is almost exhausted by today’s atmospheric concetrations. If CO2 did indeed have an effect and all fossil fuels were burned, then additional warming over the long term would in fact
The rest of the letter are some hollow words and whining about the pseudo-religion climate science has become. Yes, they really use the word pseudo-religion. Sigh.

If you understand German (if you don't : shame on you, it's a beautiful language), you'll see that on the EIKE-site people coming to the same conclusion : is this *really* all the German climate skeptics can come up with ? Apparantly, the answer is yes.

who signed ?
The good thing of the poor attempt to scientifical skepticism, is that it makes it very easy to conclude that people signing a letter like this have disqualified themselves as being relevant scientists. And actually, oddly, the list is divided in two parts, being : Wissenschaftler ("scientists") & Besorgte engagierte Bürger ("concerned citizens")

It's unclear to me why they made this separation. Nor is it clear to me why the people they classify as scientists would have any relevance for climate science. People like Labohm & Beck are both classified as scientists, while in fact they are an economist & a high school teacher.

In fact, if i do a quick search on the list on the word "klima", only one name can be found, being Prof. Dr. Horst Malberg Universitätsprofessor (A.D.) für Meteorologie und Klimatologie. One. That's all.

And Horst Malberg has a long history of lobbyism. Malberg was one of the people signing the lobby-letter to Un secretary Ban Ki-Moon.

A letter he signed together with a lot of the well known skeptics (from Holland : Rob Kouffeld, Arthur Rörsch, Hans Erren, Dick Thoenes. And Hans Labohm, who on the picture is sitting besides Malberg at a convention organised by EIKE & the German liberal FDP-party)

I think it's pretty safe to say the letter to German chancellor Angela Merkel is nothing but another attempt of a lobby astroturf group to try to create confusion.

The names of the signers are listed beneath the widget. Probably the best known names internationally and in the blogworld are :

  • Dipl.Biologe Ernst Georg Beck (Eli Rabett has a good couple of posts on the work of Beck here and here) :
  • economist Hans Labohm, still trying to buy authority by calling himself an 'expert reviewer for the IPCC'. Deltoid explains why everyone, including you, me and farmer Bob all can be IPCC expert reviewers too People using that 'title' actually proof NOT to be experts :-)
Besides those two, some special notice goes to Wolfram von Juterzenka ("Tungsten" from Juterzenka) for having the most beautiful name on the list. Wolfram von Juterzenka. What a beautiful language German is.

The people signing the open letter to Merkel are :

1 Prof. Dr. Hans-Günter Appel Hütteningenieur und Werkstoffwissenschaftler.
2 Prof. Dr. hab. Dorota Appenzeller Prof .für Ökonometrie und angewandte Mathematik VizeDekan der Universität Poznan Polen
3 Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Bachmann Leiter des Instituts für Schwingungstechnik, FH Düsseldorf bis zum Ruhestand 2002
4 Prof. Dr. Hans Karl Barth Geschäftsführer / Managing Director World Habitat Society GmbH - Environmental Services
5 Dipl.Biologe Ernst Georg Beck
6 Dr. rer.nat. Horst Borchert Dipl.Physiker
7 Dipl. Biol. Helgo Bran Biologe ehem. MdL BW Grüne
8 Prof. Dr. rer. nat. Gerhard Buse Biochemiker
9 Dr.Ing. Ivo Busko Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt e.V. in der Helmholtz-Gemeinschaft Institut für Technische Physik
10 Dr. Ing. Gottfried Class nukleare Sicherheit, Kernfusion, Thermohydraulik, physikalische Chemie
11 Dr.Ing Urban Cleve Kernphysiker Thermodynamiker, Energietechniker
12 Dr. rer. nat. Rudolf-Adolf Dietrich Energieexperte TETRA Energie GmbH Kernenergieperte
13 Dipl.-Ing. Peter Dietze
14 Dr. rer. nat. Siegfried Dittrich Physikochemiker
15 Dr.rer.nat. Theo Eichten Diplom-Physiker
16 Ferroni Ferruccio Zürich Präsident NIPCC-SUISSE
17 Dr. sc.agr. Albrecht Glatzle Agrarbiologe, Director científico INTTAS, Paraguay
18 Dr. rer..nat. Klaus-Jürgen Goldmann Dipl. Geologe
19 Dr. rer.nat. Josef Große- Wördemann Physikochemiker
20 Dr. rer. nat. Günther Hauck Dipl.-Chem.
21 Prof. Dr. Detlef Hebert ehem. Fakultät für Chemie und Physik Institut für Angewandte Physik
22 Dipl. Geologe Heinisch Heinisch
23 Dr. rer.nat. Horst Herman Dipl. Chemiker
24 Prof. Dr. Hans-Jürgen Hinz Uni-Münster Institut für Physikalische Chemie
25 Dipl. Geologe Andreas Hoemann Dipl. Geologe
26 Dr. rer. nat. Heinz Hug Chemiker
27 Dr. rer.nat. Bernd Hüttner Theor. Physiker
28 Prof. Dr. Werner Kirstein dipl. Physiker & Geograph
29 Dipl. Meteorologe Klaus Knüpffer METEO SERVICE weather research GmbH
30 Dr. rer. hort. Werner Köster Agrarwissenschaftler
31 Dr. rer.nat. Albert Krause Chemiker Forschung
32 Dr. rer. nat Norbert Kunert Dipl. Geologe
33 Dr. rer. nat. Peter Kuzel Diplomchemiker
34 Drs. Hans Labohm IPCC AR4 Expert reviewer, Dipl. Kfm.
35 Dr. rer.nat Ludwig Laus Dipl. Geologe
36 Dr. rer.nat. Rainer Link Physiker
37 Dipl. Pysiker Alfred Loew
38 Prof. Dr. Horst-Joachim Lüdecke Dipl. Physiker HTW Saarbrücken
39 Prof. Dr. Horst Malberg Universitätsprofessor (A.D.) für Meteorologie und Klimatologie
40 Dr. rer.nat Wolfgang Monninger Geologe
41 Diplom-Meteorologe Dieter Niketta
42 Prof. Dr. Klemens Oekentorp Leiter ehem. des Geol.-Paläont. Museums der Westfälischen Wilhelms-Universität Münster
43 Dr. rer.nat. Wolfgang Poppitz Chemiker
44 Dipl. Meteorologe Klaus-Eckart Puls Dipl. Meteorologe
45 Prof. Dr. Dieter Pumplün Mathematik
46 Prof. Dr. Klaas Rathke Hochschule OWL Abt. Höxter
47 Prof. Dr. Oliver Reiser UNI Regensburg
48 Dipl. Physiker Wolfgang Riede Dipl.-Phys. ETH, DLR Stuttgart
49 Dipl.-Ing. Wolfgang Sander
50 Diplom- Mineralogin Sabine Sauerberg Geowissenschaftlerin
51 Prof. Jochen Schnetger Chemiker
52 Prof. Dr. Sigurd Schulien Hochschullehrer i.R.
53 PD Dr.habil.Dr.rer.nat. Eckhard Schulze Dipl.Pys., Med. Physik
54 Dr. rer.nat. Franz Stadtbäumer Dipl.-Geologe
55 Dr. rer.nat. Gerhard Stehlik Physikochemiker
56 Dipl. Ing. (BA) Norman Stoer Systemadministrator
57 Dr. rer.nat.habil Lothar Suntheim Diplomchemiker
58 Dipl.-Ing. Heinz Thieme Gutachter
59 Dr.phil. Dipl. Meteorologe Wolfgang Thüne Umweltministerium Mainz
60 Dr. rer. oec., Ing. Dietmar Ufer Energiewirtschaftler, Institut für Energetik, Leipzig
61 Dipl. Meteorologe Horst Veit
62 Prof. Dr. Detlef von Hofe ehem. Hauptgeschäftsführer DVS
63 Dipl Geopgraph Heiko Wiese Geographie, Meteorologie, stud. Wetterbeobachter)
64 Dr. Erich Wiesner Euro Geologe
65 Dr. Ullrich Wöstmann Dipl Geologe
66 Prof. em. Dr. Heinz Zöttl Bodenkunde
67 Dr. Zucketto Dipl. Chemiker ,früher ARCOS u. ESAB Konzern
Besorgte engagierte Bürger
1 Dipl. Ing. FH. Burckhard H. Adam Energie- und Bauberatung
2 Dipl.Ing. Paul Allenspacher Deutsches Zentrum für Luft- und Raumfahrt e.V.
3 Prof. Dr.Ing. Dieter Ameling Präsident Wirtschaftsvereinigung Stahl a. D.
4 Hartmut Bachmann Präsident eines US Wirtschaftsinstituts
5 Kerstin Bakowski
6 Dipl. Ing. Klaus Bark E-Technik
7 Dietrich Barth Realoberlehrer i.R.Geographie & Geologie
8 Hilde Barth Oberlehrerin i.R.
9 Christian Bartsch Journalist
10 Dipl.-Ing. Edgar Bätz EVU Leipzig & Institut für Energetik
11 Dieter Ber Marketingdir. a.D.
12 Dipl. Ing. Marco Bernardi Kfz-Sachverständiger
13 Dipl. Ing. Leonhard Bienert Entwicklung Kernenergie ex DDR
14 Dr. agr. Arwed Blomeyer Ministerialrat a. D.
15 Theodor Blum Elektromeister
16 Dr.Ing. Richard Bock
17 Ralph Bombosch
18 Dipl. Ing. Paul Bossert Architekt
19 Dipl. Biol. Helgo Bran Biologe ehem. MdL BW Grüne
20 Ingenieur Jacob Brandt
21 Johannes Brender Vorstand BMB Bund mündiger Bürger
22 Dr.-Ing. Wolfgang Brune Energiewirtschaftler
23 Wolfgang Büchner Spiegel Redakteur
24 Dieter Bunselmeyer Kaufmann
25 Dipl.Ing. M.G. Bury Elektroingenieur
26 Dipl.-Volkswirt Henning Clewing ehem. Geschäftsführer von Unternehmen des Maschinen- und Anlagenbaus
27 Hans-Werner Degen
28 Dipl. Ing. Andreas Demming Selbstständiger Ingenieur,
29 Dipl. Ing Peter Dettmann technischer Umweltschutz
30 Dipl. Ing. Hakola Dippel Förster
31 Dipl. Ing. M.A. Enno Dittmar
32 Diplomchemiker Gert Dobrowolski Studiendirektor
33 Gräfin Tatjana Dönhoff Journalistin/Autorin
34 Heiko Dörr Controller Industriemeister Fachrichtung Metall
35 Dipl. Ing. Johannes Drosdeck Maschinenbau Automotive
36 Dipl.-Math. Heinrich Duepmann Dipl.-Math. Vorsitzender naeb e.V.
37 Christian Eilers Radiologe
38 Dipl. Ing. Klaus Emmerich Heizungsbau
39 Dipl. Brm. Manfred Emmerich
40 Dr. med. Wolfram Enders Arzt
41 Walter Faulenbach GF a.D.
42 Diplom Chemiker Rainer Feldhaus
43 Dr.rer.nat. Dieter Fischer Physiker
44 Diplombibliothekar Stephan Fischer
45 Dipl. Ing. Konrad Fischer Architekt
46 Wolfgang Frerich
47 Diplom-Meteorologe Christian Freuer
48 Dipl. Ing. Jürgen Fuchsberger Architekt
49 Dipl. Ing. Horst Gampper
50 Krishna Gans
51 Dr.-Ing. Adolf Gärtner
52 Dipl. Hydrobiologe Edgar Gärtner Journalist
53 Dr. Ing. Peter Geier Ernergiewirtschaftler
54 Dipl.-Ing. Dipl-Inform. Ewald Gleixner Software-Entwicklung
55 Dipl. Ing. Pierre Gosselin Übersetzer Technisches Übersetzungsbüro
56 Helmut Groß Bürgermeister der Stadt Tengen
57 Hans-Friedrich Große FU-Meteorologe
58 Dr. Axel Haas Dipl.-Kaufmann, Geschäftsf.- Gesellschafter,
59 Haase
60 Diplom-Physikerin Christel Hahn
61 Dr. rer. nat. Günther Hauck Dipl.-Chem.
62 Dipl. Ing. Wilfried Heck Elektrotechnik
63 Dipl.-Ing. Bernd Heinmüller Elektrotechnik
64 Armin Heinzelmann Projektmanager
65 Dr. Ing. Herbert Heuser
66 Rainer Hoffmann Prokurist
67 Prof. Dr.-Ing. Heiko Hofmann Berufsakademie Dresden
68 Dipl.-Brm. Jens Hofmann
69 Ferdinand Fürst zu Hohenlohe-Bartenstein
70 Dipl. Kfm. Siegfried Holler
71 Dr.Ing. Kurt Honrath Technischer Vorstand i.R.
72 Stud.Dir.i.R. Klaus-Peter Hoop Chemie, Mathematik
73 Peter Hoppe
74 Christoph Horst Jurist
75 Diplom-Biologin Hannelore Hüttner Ökologie
76 Diplom Biologin Marion Hüttner
77 Melanie Hüttner freischaffende Künstlerin
78 Rüchel Ingo Schulleiter i.R./OStD (Mathematik, Physik)
79 Dipl. Kfm, Oliver Janich Journalist Focus Money Bundesvorsitzender der "Partei der Vernunft"., ,
80 Ulf Johannsen Baumpfleger
81 Dipl.Ing.oec. Horst Jungnickel ehemals leitender Mitarbeiter in der Energiewirtschaft
82 Wolfram von Juterzenka
83 Silvia Kaiser Industriekauffrau
84 Jürgen Kampmeier
85 Dr. rer. nat Volker Kay Diplom Biologe
86 Winfried Klein Oberstudienrat,
87 Willi Klümpen Arzt
88 Dr. Ing. Dietrich E. Koelle Ingenieurbüro für Systemanalysen
89 Dipl.-Ing. Peter Krah MinR a.D.
90 Dr. Klaus Peter Krause Journalist
91 Diplommedizinerin Charlotte Krause Oberärztin i.R.
92 Friedrich Krause Geschäftsführer ehem.
93 Norman Krayer Personalberater
94 Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Oswald Kreitschitz Physiker und Unternehmen
95 Dipl.-Ing. Dr. Oswald Kreitschitz Physiker und Unternehmer
96 Dip. Ing. Siegfried Kröger Ltd. Baudirektor, EW
97 Oliver Kulbe Gesundheitsexperte
98 Joachim Lampe
99 Prof. Dr. Klaus Klaus Landfried Professor a.D. und Universitätspräsident a.D.
100 Martina Lange Progammiererin
101 Dr. rer. nat. Christoph Leinß Oberforstrat
102 Dipl. Ing. Raimund Leistenschneider
103 Obering. i.R. Ludwig Lenniger
104 Dipl. Ing. Michael Limburg Vizepräsident Europäisches Institut für Klima und Energie
105 Dipl. Mathematiker Ludger Linneborn
106 Ulrich Löbert Kaufmann
107 Dipl. Chemiker Ehrenfried Loock
108 Dr. jur. Bernward Löwenberg Landrat des Main-Taunus-Kreises a.D.
109 Manfred Lubas
110 Evelin Maas
111 Dipl.-Kfm. Wolfgang Meister Dipl.-Kfm.
112 Dr. rer. nat. Enno Meyer Meyer, Physiker, Patentanwalt
113 Hannelore Mohringer med. techn. Assistentin
114 Hans-Martin Moll Bürgermeister
115 Dipl. Verw.W. Wolfgang Müller Geschäfstführer IUF
116 Dipl. Ing. Hainer Müller
117 Jens G. Müller Kameramann
118 Thomas Nissen selbständiger Kaufmann
119 Hermann Norff
120 lic.oec.HSG/MBA Peter Nortmann
122 Dr. Ing. Arman Nyilas Ingenieurbüro
123 Dipl. Ing. Hans-Jörg Oehm Regierungsbaumeister für Städtebau
124 Ing. grad. Peter Orth Entwicklung Automotive i.R.
125 Willibert Pauels
126 Dr. rer.nat. Hans Penner Dipl. Chemiker
127 Dr. Ing. Friedrich Wilhelm Peppler Kernreaktorsicherheitsexperte
128 Georg von Petersdorff-Campen Landwirt
129 Dr. Helmut Pöltelt Energieexperte TETRA Energie GmbH Kernenergie
130 Keutner Prof. Dr. TFH Berlin FB-VI
131 Dpl. Vwt. Heide-Marie Rasch Abgeordnete des Kreistages von Nordfriesland
132 Dipl.-Kfm. Adolf Rasch
133 Dipl.-Ing.oec., Dipl.-Betrw.(FH), Ing. Peter Rauch Inhaber Ingenieurbüro
134 Prof. a.D. Dr.-Ing. Eberhard Rauschenfels
135 Jutta Reichardt Choreografin u. Moderatorin
136 Prof. Dr.-Ing. Sc. D. Helmut Reihlen Direktor des DIN Deutsches Institut für Normung i.R.
137 Dipl.Kfm. Walter Rentel
138 Gabriele Rentrop
139 Dr. Ing. Roland Richter Nuklearservice bei der K.A.B. AG Berlin
140 Erich Richter
141 Dipl. Ing. Jürgen Roesicke Dipl.- Ing. Industrielle Mikrobiologie
142 Niels Rohde Kaufmann, selbständig
143 Friedhelm Rostan
144 Dipl. Ing. Markus Rustemeier
145 Dipl. Ing. FH Johannes Schlorke Elektroniker i. R.
146 Dipl. Ing. Michael Schneider Energie + Verfahrenstechnik
147 Michael Schröter Schröter Kontor - SCHRÖTER GMBH & CO. KG
148 Winfried Schubert freier Jounalist
149 Prof. Dr. Sigurd Schulien Hochschullehrer i.R.
150 Dr. med. Robin Schürmann Arzt
151 Dipl.Ing Jürgen Seesselberg
152 Dr. phil Robert Sellmeir Dipl. Physiker, Unternehmer, Geschäftsführer
153 Flugkapitän Franz Sommersperger
154 Dipl.-Ing. Jørgen Sørensen Energieberater
155 Joachim Späth Maschinenbautechniker, KFZ Meister, Landwirt
156 Günter Stiehl Techniker
157 Dipl. Ing. Eberhard C. Stotko Präsident VDSt-Akademie
158 Heinrich Stracke ehemals Landschaftsarchitekt
159 Dr. Gallus Strobel - Bürgermeister Triberg
160 Dr. rer. nat. Günter Stromburg Physiker
161 Dr.rer.nat Detlef Symietz
162 Wolfgang Theophile
163 Dr. med. Heinrich Thieler Arzt
164 Dipl. Ing. Erhard Thilo Geschäftsführer a.D
165 Dr.Ing. Christian Thoma
166 Herrn Dr. Holger Thuss EIKE Präsident
167 Siegfried Torbohm
168 Ludger Viefhues
169 Reiner Vogels Pfr. i.R
170 Dipl. Ing. Walter Vollert Dipl.-Ing. Maschinenwesen
171 Dipl.Ing. Georg Völlink Energie- und Verfahrenstechnik
172 Diplom-Physiker Alvo von Alvensleben
173 Dr. jur. Henning von Mangold Ass. MBA Kaufmann
174 Betr.Wirt. grad. Jürgen Voß
175 Michael Wagner Kafmann
176 Michael Weber
177 Günter Weber Herausgeber Verlagsgruppe 'markt intern'
178 Dr. rer.nat. Martin Wehlan Dipl. Chemiker, Patentanwalt
179 Tubbesing Werner Verkaufsleiter
180 Carl Paul Wieland Forschung und Entwicklung
181 Dr. rer. nat. Otto-Henning Wilhelms Pharmakologe i.R.
182 Ulf Wilmerstaedt Diplom-Lehrer (Physik / Mathematik)
183 Alois Wübbeling Risikomanager Firmenfinanzen.
184 Dr. rer.nat. Knut Wuntke Dipl.Chemiker
185 Gerd Zelck Dipl. Ing. (FH)
186 Christian Ziekow Ingenieur
187 Dr. med. Hans-Joachim Zielinski Arzt
188 Dr. jur. Matthias Zirker Rechtsanwalt Fachanwalt für Arbeitsrecht
189 Dipl.-Kffr. Claudia Zirker Gegenwind Spessart


  1. Excellent, and just in the nick of time ... this frauf has jumped the pond and is being spread in North America now, so thank you :-)

  2. I searched for some info on this one too, checking out some German sites and comments.

    Well done, Jules.

    BTW, why are the scientists on these kinds of petitions almost always exclusively above the age of 60?

  3. Grüß Gott, Jules,

    Sie sind ein Fan von Angie, oder? Und ein Klimaleugner-Fresser.

    Guten Appetit!


  4. Neven,

    the emeritus-issue is one many people have been wondering about.

    my guess is that the emeriti are people who were raised just after WW2, when there was an optimistic believe in the benefits in technology and how it would make this world a better place. And to a greater extent it.

    Yet i think it must have a been too big a shock to discover that the science and technology they dedicated their life to, had a darker side.

    All of the sudden, with the rise of green movement of the 70's and 80's, they weren't scientists/heroes anymore, no they were the evil industrial enemy.

    Nuclear phisicists all of the sudden weren't the ones who brought us the benificial nuclear energy. No, suddenly they became nuclear killers.

    Polymeric chemists didn't bring us brilliant new products like plastics or nylon. Suddenly, they became the evil creators of evil pollutants nature cannot tear down recycle naturally.

    My guess is the explanation, together of course with the political views, can be found in the process above.

    We, mankind, aren't good in accepting we sometimes as a person we are "wrong".

    i put "wrong" between brackets, because i do am happy with the technological process of the past century.

  5. Konrad,

    i will reply in English as my knowledge of german is passive.

    For the non-German spaking people maybe first a translation of the comment tou made :
    are you a fan of Angie [Merkel] or so ? And a climate-lie eater.

    1) For me, Merkel is a politician from a country which isn't my own and i hardly even know what she stands for.

    I am not even sure which political party she is in (christian-democrats ?), which illustrates how much i know and care about Angie.

    2) I took a brief look at your website, and i meet the name of professional spinner Marc Morano, who on this site received attention for misquoting a Belgian scientist.
    Furthermore i see you linking to the deeply flawed Joanne Nova handbook (part two and three)

    I'm sorry, but these kind of sources are nowhere near demonstrating climate science is wrong.


  6. Dear Jules,

    thanks a lot that you gave me the honor to get a reply from you and not a cancelling of my post. So I will try my school english to answer, pardon me for possible mistakes (and I would translate Klimaleugner-Fresser as Climate-denialist-eater).

    1st Angela Merkel. She was a highly ranked propagandist for the Soviets, the socialism and communism for many years in the communistic youth movement of the former GDR (Soviet occupied zone of Middle Germany). Her father was a big boss and priest in the evangelic church of the GDR (namd "Der Rote Kahsner"), trying to convince the christians there from the supremacy of the socialistic system. He emigrated from Western Germany to the Soviet Zone to live there (with two cars, allowness for free travels to the west and many other privileges). After the reunification Angie changed like a chameleon to the so called Christlich Demokratische Union - the Kohl party and started her career as environment minister and fighting the bigger ones in her system. She managed to abandon the Kohl's, is now chancellor and stands for a lot of very crazy pseudo-ecological laws and governmental grants to scientists and lobbyists. Besides she is a 150 % follower of the US and their best friends.

    2nd The AGW and The Climate Angst

    Have you ever asked for the history of all the ecologigal ideas and movement? The pre-WWII-times autarkic energy production was driven mostly under Hitler and his Nazis. They installed bio fuel research and used it strongly, they installed biogas reactors in the concentration camp Auschwitz, they started the first wind power firms in Thuringia etc. It's Green-Brown Nazi ideology from it's beginning, trying to come over by non-democratic but tyrannic governmental methods. The Green Movement is a fascistic one and was installed in US in the 60s from Hitlers supporters. From there it comes to Europe in the 70s.

    And the idea of CO2 as a bad climate killer gaz comes from the nuclear power firms to install a bigger fear than the nuclear anxiousness. You must not ask why ...

    All this can be studied in a lot of open sources if someone is enough open minded.

    Are you?

    So please pardon me for linking to some activists against the AGW movement. It is due to my political position - founded on a lot of scientific and historic studies - at least in my eyes and in my opinion I've done my homework.

    Annex: I do not believe in your psychologistic explanation regarding old, disappointed guys in the denialist scene. It is eco-business what we are talking about - not science. I suppose, you know this already.

    My best regards

    Konrad (born 1955)

  7. Here we go again the denialist agenda.I done my homework and am part of the older brigade and used to belive this CO2 AGW hype.Then whenI decided to build my own computer model and figured the human race carbonised 1/400,000,000of the atmoshere every day figured somebody is pulling my leg.Thats like tlling me fly locked up inside a sealed up jumbo jet passing wind and breahing air is going to to in few years muck up the atmoshere of the aircraft interior.Get a grip when you study all the data out there 280PPM traps as near as dam it 100% of the heat that can be trapped from CO2 infrared section of heat trpping .Even if you go to 600PPM or 2000PPM of CO2 the minor incremeal icrease in heat trapping isnt a real issue and probably less than a few tenths of degreee rise best I can figure from studying this subject over many years.There is no way I can swollow the AGW trip and that science.Then when you see the money trsil Al Gore getting the UN CO2 exclusive trading rights and making a whack of money and when you see other things that makes the agenda AGW panick the world to set CO2targets that are going to hurt economics sytems and create massive unemployment for the masses not sheltered in nice government jobs you have to figure this is a money trail agenda and not a science .So me the lone ranger not employed by any oil or politics or outsde forces looking the science have chosen to fight back this science and revile in the climate change denialist label you pin on me cause your pseudo science like Hitlers Pseudo Science the master race will be shown up for what it is a money grabbing scam or as better said by Profesor Bellamy CO2 AGW is a HOAX

    Lone Ranger

  8. The carbon tax scheme will be used to fund the one world government, global warming is a hoax.

    31,478 American scientists have signed this petition,
    including 9,029 with PhDs.

    I guess they are all wrong hey.

    Your being fooled by the new world order again and acting as there stooge.

  9. Thank you, I've been wondering about this list and the people on it. Beck's appearance was obviously a bad sign: when you go to a restaurant and see a roach, you know the restaurant probably has roaches. But its good to see suspicions confirmed.

  10. Lone Ranger -

    Your research is Brilliant! Based on your illustrious career as a climate scientist I suggest you are now qualified to write an open letter to the Chancellor!

  11. Aquatic,

    The one world government has already been here for quite a while and you are their unwitting pawn. The same goes for Konrad Fischer. The conspiracy is not in the future, it is here and now. If you really are as concerned as you seem to be you'd better use your energy to protest against the mindset that makes the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and financial bubbles possible. All of these things are costing us trillions and trillions of Euros/dollars NOW, not somewhere in the future through some obscure taxes and freedom limiting laws, but NOW.

    If you'd investigate these issues further you'd find out real soon that the mindset that is causing all kinds of global problems (the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the current economic recession are just two examples) is also the mindset that would cause Global Warming, if it were to exist (whatever it is you care to believe).

    If you don't see these connections between the dots, you are doing nothing more than strengthen the thing you are protesting against! Blind faith in conspiracies will not get you anywhere and lets you fall into the trap of divide & conquer. Think about how your actions, your dependency on the system, relate to all these problems and then get out of your easy internet chair and do something!



  12. Neven,
    wise man! What do you do and what did you? Please tell us quickly what's working best, we want to learn from you so much to change the world! Jess wi kän!

    Your's truly

    Activist for paradising the hell

  13. Dear Konrad,

    The first thing I did was move to Germany! ;-)

    The second thing I'll do, either here or in Austria, is renovate a farm and improve (part of) it to passivehouse standard. Then I'll increasingly try to provide for my own needs, such as food, water and energy.

    When this has been more or less set up I'll give all I can to improve my local community on a sustainable level, so that others become less dependent on the (evil aspects of the) system and fully develop their individual potential, which is the real freedom as opposed to the freedom to consume and do whatever the hell one wants that is usually behind the rhetoric of groups who want business to stay as usual.

    All of this is part of a process to try and cut down as much as possible the money flow that goes to the multinational/government-monster which is increasingly wreaking havoc in the natural world (even without the existence of AGW) and the human world (on a social, spiritual and health level). I want the people around me to benefit from my productivity and not the NWO-one-world-government-Big-Pharma-Agro-Tobacco-Sugar-COAL-OIL-weapon-industry-Satan-Reptilians-whatever.

    So, ask yourself:
    - Who am I working for and what do they do with the profits?
    - Where do I put my savings? I found out a few years ago that my bank was investing heavily in the weapons industry (landmines and cluster munitions) and the fossil fuel industry. I switched banks.
    - How do I consume? What's in the food/clothes/appliances I buy, how is it produced? What does it do to ground water levels, does it pollute or exhaust them? Is the price so low because wage slaves are producing it?
    - How much do I really need? Should I keep letting myself be conditioned by advertising and culturally ingrained habits that are the boss of me? Is the amount of quality of life determined by quantity?

    It's not about getting it right in one week, but about unceasingly asking the questions. How much of an accomplice are you in the things you wind yourself up about?

    Maybe it is not dead certain that AGW will become a big problem (I think it is, but I'll admit readily that it's cognitive bias on my part), but if it is, then it's driven by the same thing that is driving all the other current problems, from world hunger to ocean acidification. Continuously debating it on the Internet with people who have a cognitive bias opposite of yours will not change anything, ever.

    When you are more or less done theorising, it is a moral imperative that you integrate these theories in the way you live and act, whether the impact be small or not. It is the responsibility that comes with the freedom we enjoy.

    So if you react vehemently against a one world government based on AGW or carbon taxes or whatever, be sure to understand that the driving factor behind these issues is also driving all the other global issues (wars, bailouts, top soil erosion, overfishing). If you really want to act against it, you have to change the way you live and will probably end up following the same process that I'm currently in (perhaps you already are), even though our cognitive biases are diametrically opposed!

    Now that's a funny idea, eh? :-)



  14. Dear Neven,
    sounds not so easy what you're suggesting. Maybe it's less difficult to come over the bad guys by shooting your or mine president, eh? ;-)

    Another crazy member of Utopia

  15. I have contemplated shooting people, but you know: when you fight fire with fire, you become the fire. Violence is a big part of the problem.

    And besides, Angie is just too hot! :-)

  16. Oh, I understand. Maybe suicide is the final solution to make the world better ...


  17. Changing your habits and lifestyle is indeed a form of suicide. :-B

  18. Yes. I died in my age of 33. And resurrected as a reborn. Since then I changed every day ...